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Talk:Bela Tyken
Melthusian starship After this discussion, the article is kept. It should still be discussed if a different title is more "accurate" or a merge is the best way. Tom (talk) 19:54, November 28, 2016 (UTC) :Regarding a rename: assuming there is a ship? Well, we can't say it's a cargo ship, as although he had cargo (anicium and yurium among them), so might any ship, regardless of whether it's a cargo ship. It had a crew, but most ships do, so no naming possibilities there. :As for whether there was a ship at all? Things to consider: *Tyken did an analysis to determine how he could escape, suggesting he possessed something capable of making that kind of analysis, and therefore a computer of some kind (a ship's computer?). *He's captain of something and over somebody, presumably, although the crew is twice identified as "the crew", not "his crew". *Yet the rift was named after him, suggesting he was the top ranking/most memorable person of his group and in command. *The cargo is identified as "his cargo", and it's said that "he escaped" the rift, "he" being a shorthand for he and whoever was with him implying he was responsible for the escape, and owning/having claim to certain cargo doesn't necessarily mean whatever ship exists is also yours. :There's no possibility that there in fact was no crew aside from Tyken, as Data would have said there was no crew instead of saying the crew did not suffer from unusual behavior or nightmares, when asked by Deanna Troi. :So what to do? The ship is neither mentioned as being a ship or having a name (the latter of which isn't a problem as we have Category:Unnamed starships.) However: *It is implied in the same way that Fluffy is apparently an animal, not just Chekov uttering a random word at the end of a string of animal species names. *It is implied in the same way that a sliced food is apparently a food, not merely Sisko asking for a slice of life. :(I know these are both my own additions I'm using to justify this, but I go with what I know and it fits). --LauraCC (talk) 20:03, November 30, 2016 (UTC) ::I suppose I should have said this at the deletion discussion, but it's not implied, not really. We can deduce that there presumably was a ship, but us finding clues aside it was at no point even explicitly alluded to. Analogy: if a starfleet ship is offhandedly mentioned, then a crew is "implied", but unless the dialog at least alludes to them that doesn't mean we have to add an entry on unnamed people for them. We only make entries for things that were actually mentioned, however vaguely, in some way. Not just for anything we can safely assume probably exists. -- Capricorn (talk) 18:26, December 1, 2016 (UTC) :Ah, there's a difference between an interrupted phrase and a non-existent one. Got it. :) Merge somewhere into a background note. --LauraCC (talk) 18:29, December 1, 2016 (UTC) ::Yeah, I suppose a Merge is the best option. Bela Tyken seems the best target, I think as it would feel too of topic for the rift page and too pedantic for the episode page. :Prepping for that, I deleted the reference to his ship there and just changed it to "Tyken and his crew". --LauraCC (talk) 19:29, December 1, 2016 (UTC) :I found another such "suggested to exist, but not explicitly said" reference and listed them here - a never said to exist other than implied by marriage spouse. Right call or not? --LauraCC (talk) 19:37, December 30, 2016 (UTC) ::: Merged with the benefactor. I think there needs to be a point when we stop dabbling in metaphysical and dictionary level entries when the same information can be neatly covered on one page without duplicating the same information. The original term remains a redirect. --Alan del Beccio (talk) 18:40, December 31, 2016 (UTC)